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Buffmuffin
12-09-2009, 06:19 PM
Afternoon all,

By now i am sure, (hope), you are aware of the astronomical phenomenon that occurred over Norway this morning.

This event occurred 11 hours after the largest ever, record breaking 2.34 TeV collision at the LHC, where they recorded a "dual jet event"... but we will get back to that later.

For the benefit of those less familiar with the astrophysical, let me give a brief explanation of the physiology of the black hole.

The black hole itself is a relatively small thing, with even the most massive ones measuring less than a mile or possibly 2 across. And these are the monsters with a mass of 5+ billion of our suns. Most are no where near this large, and range in size from microscopic on up to the upward limitations.

Surrounding this area where the laws of physics fail to apply, is a no mans land where nothing can escape, the border of this area is called the Event Horizon, once this point is crossed, nothing, not even light, can escape the downward pull of the black holes gravitational force. Immediately beyond this region is the Schwartzchild Field. This is a both a magnetic and philosophical region where the electromagnetic fields generated by the super powerful gravity converge and create the intergalactic jets commonly seen in feeding black holes, it also marks the boundary of the accretion disc before the final collapse of matter over the event horizon.

See figure:
http://www.biocrawler.com/w/images/a/ab/Black_hole_jet_diagram.jpg

Without going into a bunch of math, the basic premise of their existence is that they slowly but constantly shed matter in the form of Hawkings Radiation. As such a black hole must feed or evaporate. When feeding on matter a jet of energized particles emanates from both polar regions of the black hole, these are called intergalactic jets. (due mostly to their size as observed on super massive galaxy core black holes.)

If pointed at a specific region, this is a deadly stream of radiation called a Blazar.

See figure:
http://physics.technion.ac.il/~school/blackhole_diagram.jpg

The Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland has been the topic of much debate regarding its safety, some espouse the concern that it near speed of light impacts between subatomic particles in an attempt to recreate the conditions present at the moment of the big bang in search of so called god particles carries the risk of spawning primordial (microscopic) black holes.

Previous theory held that any such black hole, if formed, should evaporate moments after creation, and fail to grow or feed on the matter of earth or its atmosphere.

All of that was proven false this morning. 11 hours after the new, record breaking collision in Switzerland, this was seen rising out of the earth over Norway:
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g306/julie_private/wtf/WTF1.jpg

Yes, its real, no its not photoshopped. It was visible over a full 20 degrees of Earths latitude, making it huge.. roughly the size of Delaware. It was seen my millions, videotaped and photographed by thousands. This phenomenon was visible rising through the atmosphere for approximately 2-3 minutes, it developed a accretion ring, a full polar jet, and continued to grow until it reached the matter devoid regions at the edge of space, whence it promptly evaporated. (we hope).
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g306/julie_private/wtf/WTF2.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g306/julie_private/wtf/WTF3.jpg

The theory is shows to be wrong, this thing not only survived the moments after creation,but fed and grew... but by the grace of god it was headed in a direction away from earth, if it happened to have been on the same path as our orbit, it could have consumed vast amounts of matter comprising our planet and our atmosphere.

THE LHC needs to be stopped and stopped now. Governments have invested trillions in building the thing, international media has ignored this happening, it is being denounced as everything from swamp gas to a failed rocket launch...

Petition your senators, insist on answers, this is the ultimate power and weapon in the universe and children who have no idea what they are doing are playing this this new found toy. This threatens the survival of our very planet.

Azalen Rehx
12-09-2009, 06:43 PM
not gonna lie, it looks super uber fake in those photos. but for the record i do believe this contraption they have built will lead to the destruction of the human race. where is SG1 when we need them !

Jordanth
12-09-2009, 06:46 PM
Yea, wouldn't something like this be all over the news if it did happen? I think its fake. The pic screams photoshop and whoever started this is clearly bored or very hooked up.

Buffmuffin
12-09-2009, 06:50 PM
you gentlemen really need to research before commenting.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2764647/Spiral-UFO-puts-Norway-in-a-spin.html

http://www.examiner.com/x-2383-Honolulu-Exopolitics-Examiner~y2009m12d9-Mysterious-light-appears-over-Norway-before-Obama-Peace-Prize-speech

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/dpp/news/dpgo-Norway-Spiral-UFO-Seen-Night-Sky-fc-200912091260390009779

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/ufo/6770959/Strange-light-in-Norwegian-sky-sparks-mystery.html

Azalen Rehx
12-09-2009, 07:11 PM
first off, you asked people come here and post, so you opened a can of worms possibly of smartasses, get over it, secondly, it looks fucking fake. so don't tell people they need to research for stating a fucking opinion

DriftFeklar
12-09-2009, 07:24 PM
Mysterious lights over Norway:
http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/12/09/2147455.aspx

The general concensus seems to be that the spiral was created by a missle launch. Some people are suggesting it was a missle failing and out of control, while other sources are saying that it could be a succesfull rocket launch. (Rockets are spun to create gyroscopic stability, and the exhaust expanding outward would look like a spiral.)

As to the LHC, it did achieve a world record. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091209171152.htm

Disclaimer! My Opinion incoming.....
I sincerly doubt that was a black hole over Norway. Nor do I think the LHC is going to be our doom. But that's just my opinion.

Personally, I find quantum physics fascinating and I follow the news on the LHC myself.

Azalen Rehx
12-09-2009, 07:32 PM
im not saying its not true, im just saying those pictures look 100% fake, i mean look at the colors of the swirl and everything, it looks so fake i can't eveen believe they made it to the internet

Buffmuffin
12-09-2009, 08:01 PM
Yeah, the fun story of it being a missile launch is right up there with it being Venus reflecting off of swamp gas while a weather balloon was traveling by...

I have seen a lot of missile launches and a lot of missile launch failures... nothing in the history of man has ever looked like this...

Ironically, it looks exactly like one thing we know about... Black holes. dead ringer for that sucker.

Azalen, you need to calm down. You walk in to this thread, immediately and basely accuse the pictures of being fake, which they have already been adjudged real and accredited by news organizations, then the person after you basely states that if it was real it would be in the news.

I suggested you do more research, googled it and provided several links to news outlets right off the bat.

Regardless, there are literally hundreds if not thousands of these pictures and videos taken all at the same time by over 5 million witnesses.

It is real, it did happen and it isn't swamp gas powered weather balloons from Venus, no matter how many times the people who spent billions if not trillions of your dollars building this monstrosity tell you it is.

This thing looks exactly like the 1 thing in physics we know about.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

I know quite a few astronomers in this region, one is a close friend of mine and i know them through association... they all know what this is, their jaws are on the floor and yours should be too...

All i am calling for is answers to some basic questions, questions that could be the death of us all if answered inappropriately... i dont think that's too much to ask. Ask your senator to ask questions, don't let this get swept under the rug as swamp gas and weather balloons.

Azalen Rehx
12-09-2009, 08:06 PM
it looks super uber fake in those photos.

quote for the fuckin win, learn to read before you make a post, i said they LOOK fake did you get it that time? LOOK FAKE, i never came in here saying they were fake, im just saying, those pictures look terrible , and even if i took the picture myself, id still think it LOOKS fake.

Cribbage
12-09-2009, 08:44 PM
meh it was caused by the aliens that build the pyramids. They want their planet back.

Foxtracker
12-09-2009, 09:26 PM
I don't see how this UFO is directly connected to the LHC test other then the coincidence of happening on the same day.

Im not saying a mico-black hole cant destroy the world, i don't know enough to make a true decision on that but i will point out that mere coincidence in time doesn't prove anything.

I dont understand how u can claim it looks just like a black hole, to me it looks like any UFO.....

I would think through common sense a black hole would who have more effect then just visual but then again maybe its too small? Also what was its escape velocity if it took 3-4mins to leave the atmosphere? 3,500 mph? that seems awfully slow after a light speed collision. i need to also point out that moving at 3500 mph would prevent the Accretion disc from properly forming as the disc is made of Matter pulled by the black holes gravitational tide. Outside of the event horizon (which is amazingly small) the gravity would pull on matter but not nearly fast enough to form a full disc(much less a huge visible disc). Also a micro black hole would be far to small to pull enough matter in to make a plasma jet that size or grow all that fast....

So i dont think that was a black hole.

I also did a tiny bit of reading and it seems that the major don't worry about it for a number of reasons such as block hole evaporation, collisions of far greater magnitude hit the earths atmosphere all the time, and a fast traveling black hole created would easily escape the earth (even go right through the whole earth.)

Im not saying i know it all or that my info it right but i will say that although science messes up, it gets a lot of things right and one wonderful thing about science is that everyone critiques each other. Science journals allow piers to go over each others facts and numbers. They have had 2 journal publications on the likely hood of a micro black hole destroying us. I haven't seen a real Article that says its likely....other then "hey it could happen"( and when talking about theoretical psychics Anything COULD happen) somethings the public should have a say but It isn't up to the masses to make every scientific decision especially about things 99% of us don't understand....

Beside the theoretical chance of a micro black hole destroying us, micro black holes themselves are completely theoretical at this point.

Avyendha
12-09-2009, 10:37 PM
Yeah, the fun story of it being a missile launch is right up there with it being Venus reflecting off of swamp gas while a weather balloon was traveling by...

Those darn mischievous weather balloons, you never know what one will do.


If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.
Unless it's a rabbit in a duck suite.

If this is the end of the world then it is what it is, nothing can be done about it now. :)

Buffmuffin
12-09-2009, 11:30 PM
Foxtracker,

Firstly, 2 vehicles are involved in a head on impact at 60 mph... during the impact the 2 front bumpers are melded together.. do they travel down the road at 60mph?

There is no reason to assume that any particle or item generated from the collision will assume the full or even near speed of the original particles.

As for the looking like any UFO... i would really like to see your UFO archive if it contains other photos of things that look like this. The astrophysicists i have seen quoted in the news articles call this "an unprecedented phenomenon new to man"...

With regard to the accretion disk, you are dealing with gravity waves interacting with a matter rich environment in the atmosphere, there is no science which could even fathom how such an interaction would go. Additionally, you are presuming to understand the nature of a black hole, which itself is immune to the laws of physics as we understand them... quite impossible.

Also, you are completely ignoring the variable of how much matter it may have consumed while making a transition through the earth and atmosphere... millions of yards of rock, millions of gallons of seawater, before it ever reached the atmosphere.... the singularity might have weighed billions of pounds, by the time it reached the atmosphere, we could loose that much rock and seawater along its path and not even notice it missing... Something to consider...

Regardless of likelihood, theories, variables, odds or possibilities, what you cannot deny is that the basic structure of what appeared over Norway resembles most closely, of all things known to man, the black hole. Which is why we can critique the structure.

Critique the structure of the gas jet... critique the structure of the accretion disc, critique the radius of the schwartzchild field, but remember, at the end of it all, you are still debating the obvious structures of a element known to man as the black hole, and debating, i might add, with your perceptions alone, of an item never before seen by human eyes...

Araden
12-09-2009, 11:45 PM
whether the pics look real or fake don't matter, news been reporting it and saying tons of people saw with their own eyes.

What the cause is... well, i'll leave you to form your own hypothesis =)

Foxtracker
12-09-2009, 11:59 PM
lol yes, yes i can say that it doesn't look like a black hole.

and it does look EXACTLY like a UFO (UFO = unidentified flying object= EXACTLY what it is DUH) There are countless UFOs that have appear and never appeared again. UFOs by definition cant be identified/categorized easily

if u collide 2 cars moving at 60 mph u actually can get objects leaving the collision faster then 60 mph lol. Think about it. All that energy instead of propelling a larger object gets transferred to SMALLER mass objects in the collision....but thats besides the point, im talking about a collision with the speed of LIGHT( 300,000 kilometers per second) there's a slight difference between 2-4k miles per HOUR and 300,000 Kilometers per SECOND.

Also some laws of physics cant just be pushed aside because its a black hole OOOOO a black hole! ignore the laws of all physics!.... no.... Either it left the earths atmosphere or it didnt, if it didn't we would have noticed it landing since u think its sooooo big. Also if it ate tons and tons of ground matter leaving the ground, that might also be noticed assuming it didn't go in zig zags leaving the LHC. Only the inner singularity is "immune to the laws of physics" and that just because we don't know the laws that direct it, outside the singularity the laws of physics still apply! Id also like to point out NOONE thinks the black hole will grow at the rate u claim. they don't agree on how slow but NOONE says it will grow that quickly. Even it it absorbed an entire Mountain it wouldn't have much more then the gravitational power of a breeze of wind outside its accretion disc.(which would be small at that amount of mass absorbed)

Are u saying the accretion disk was the size of Delaware??? becuase if it was then moving at 2+k mph (required to leave the atmosphere in 3-4mins) the accretion disk has to be moving WITH IT.....not only that, but the accretion disk's outer limits must be moving far faster then the center just to keep the disc's form! So we had a storm the size of Delaware moving in excess of TWO THOUSAND MPH over Norway and it just dissipated with no ill effects to anything??? seriously.... once u take away the Accretion disc(calling it that only for argument's sake and the only thing that remotely makes it resemble a black hole) its a floating light. EI. a random UFO....even if the object was only reasonable large with only a 100 square miles in dimensions the movement of matter in the air would have pushed against the rest of the atmosphere and atleast some effects would have been feel on the ground....the only reasonable explanation is that it was an optical illusion that made telling its size very hard and so was misjudged when moving all that air, OR it didn't move much air at all and it was a misleading image. ...which also forces me to point out that in a clear(dry) cloudless sky there should have been little to no swirl visible. (Unless the object itself was projecting a substance that would be visible....like..i don't know...jet exhaust?)

PS: 2k is a very generous estimate for the speed to leave the earths atmosphere in 3-4 mins.

Foxtracker
12-10-2009, 12:52 AM
This is to explain my comment on your black hole absorbing a mountain having the force of a breeze of wind....
"
There is nothing special about the mass of a black hole. A black hole is different from our ordinary experience not because of its mass, but because its radius has vanished. Far away from the black hole, you would feel the same strength of gravity as if the black hole were a normal star. But the force of gravity close to a black hole is enormously strong because you can get so close to its total mass!

For example, the surface of the Earth where we are standing is 6378 km from the center of the Earth. The surface is as close as you can get and still be exposed to the total mass of the Earth. Thus, it is where you will feel the strongest gravity. If suddenly the Earth became a black hole (impossible!) and you remained at 6378 km from the new Earth-black hole, you would feel the same pull of gravity as you do today. For example, if you normally weigh 120 lbs, you would still weigh 120 lbs. The mass of the Earth hasn't changed, your distance from it hasn't changed, and therefore you would experience the same gravitational force as you feel on the surface of normal Earth. But with the Earth-black hole, it would be possible for you to get closer to the total mass of the Earth. Let's say that you weigh 120 lbs standing on the surface of normal Earth. As you venture closer toward the Earth-black hole you would feel a stronger and stronger force. If you went to within 3189 km (half the radius of normal Earth) of the Earth-black hole you would weigh 480 lbs! For the same exercise with the Earth as we normally experience it, if you dug your way to 3189 km of the center, you would weigh less than at the surface, a mere 60 lbs, because there would be less Earth mass interior relative to you! There is nothing special about the mass of a black hole. A black hole is different from our ordinary experience not because of its mass, but because its radius has vanished. Far away from the black hole, you would feel the same strength of gravity as if the black hole were a normal star. But the force of gravity close to a black hole is enormously strong because you can get so close to its total mass!

For example, the surface of the Earth where we are standing is 6378 km from the center of the Earth. The surface is as close as you can get and still be exposed to the total mass of the Earth. Thus, it is where you will feel the strongest gravity. If suddenly the Earth became a black hole (impossible!) and you remained at 6378 km from the new Earth-black hole, you would feel the same pull of gravity as you do today. For example, if you normally weigh 120 lbs, you would still weigh 120 lbs. The mass of the Earth hasn't changed, your distance from it hasn't changed, and therefore you would experience the same gravitational force as you feel on the surface of normal Earth. But with the Earth-black hole, it would be possible for you to get closer to the total mass of the Earth. Let's say that you weigh 120 lbs standing on the surface of normal Earth. As you venture closer toward the Earth-black hole you would feel a stronger and stronger force. If you went to within 3189 km (half the radius of normal Earth) of the Earth-black hole you would weigh 480 lbs! For the same exercise with the Earth as we normally experience it, if you dug your way to 3189 km of the center, you would weigh less than at the surface, a mere 60 lbs, because there would be less Earth mass interior relative to you! "

Foxtracker
12-10-2009, 12:54 AM
so you see even if your black hole did absorb a billion tons of matter it would still for the most part behave like any other billion ton mass.....IE it would not make a Delaware side Accretion disc....

Sheitan
12-10-2009, 01:37 AM
This event is real. But its not a friggin black hole. This happens over eastern europe more and more lately. There have been more than a few sightings (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN_y5r7vHio) in russia that are pretty damn close!. I believe it is a failed missile attempt. Think about it rationally. Missiles fly with a rotation to maintain gyroscopic stability. It helps them maintain a set path. So what happens if a multistage rocket has a misfire with one of those stages? You just watched it.

Foxtracker
12-10-2009, 01:40 AM
aye, i never denied it happened. I'm pointing out it is NOT a black hole +)

Cribbage
12-10-2009, 11:03 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2009/12/10/norway-ufo-control-russian-rocket/?test=latestnews

I still think it was aliens. Neat video link at the bottom though.

sillaen
12-10-2009, 12:29 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2009/12/10/norway-ufo-control-russian-rocket/?test=latestnews

I still think it was aliens. Neat video link at the bottom though.

Yeah, I like the Alien theory better. :devileyebrows:

DriftFeklar
12-10-2009, 02:17 PM
Russia has confirmed that a missle test failed.

"Russia's defense ministry said a Bulava missile was launched Wednesday by a nuclear submarine submerged in the White Sea and its third stage suffered an unspecified failure."
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jW5e1IL3lgxKyVzZDuYMxiYpUlOAD9CGJQ580


Russia says it was the result of a failed test launch for its troubled Bulava missile program. In a statement, the Russian Defense Ministry said it fired a Bulava from a submarine in the White Sea near the Norwegian coast Wednesday morning. The intercontinental ballistic missile’s first two stages worked perfectly, the ministry said, though the third stage engine proved “unstable.”
http://features.csmonitor.com/globalnews/2009/12/10/norway-spiral-video-mystery-solved/


The Russian Defense Ministry admitted today that its Bulava intercontinental missile failed a test launch, following reports of unusual lights in Norway that caused an influx of UFO sightings.
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/12/russia-admits-failed-missile-launch-caused-ufo-lights-in-norway.php

Buffmuffin
12-10-2009, 06:07 PM
For example, the surface of the Earth where we are standing is 6378 km from the center of the Earth. The surface is as close as you can get and still be exposed to the total mass of the Earth. Thus, it is where you will feel the strongest gravity. If suddenly the Earth became a black hole (impossible!) and you remained at 6378 km from the new Earth-black hole, you would feel the same pull of gravity as you do today. For example, if you normally weigh 120 lbs, you would still weigh 120 lbs. "

Other than the fact that the black hole would be roughly 2 centimeters wide, and you couldn't possibly stand on it without falling into the event horizon yourself, you are correct. :P "With regard to growing as fast as i think"... The thing never got above nano level, i don't think that it "grew" any amount appreciable by man in physical size, only in appreciable mass. My point is that if it is surviving long enough to feed and continue existence, then it has already broken expected norms and has become a threat.

As for the "Missile Test"... I well knew, as i previously mentioned, that this would be explained away today as the light of Venus reflecting off of swamp gas as a weather balloon passed by... And so it has, the Russian agency that adamantly denied having any missile launches yesterday, today remembered, "Oh wait, no, THAT missile, yes, that one, sorry i thought you meant like other ICBM's or something"...

As a big fan of rocketry I have viewed countless rocket and missile shots, and every nuclear launch and airburst detonation in the history of man.

Nothing, NOTHING in the history of rocketry has ever looked like that. Whatever it was, i think any rational person can look at that and see for themselves it was no out of control rocket. There are a plethora of videos available on the internet of nighttime rocket shots gone out of control, feel free to view any of them.

Whatever it was, it was no rocket.

Hours before this event appeared, 1000 miles to the south, a massive device, the most powerful machine ever built by man, designed to replicate the conditions present during the formation of the universe fired a 2.34 NeV shot, shattering all previous records for particle impacts.

All physicists in the world agree that the machine will create nano black holes as a byproduct of the collisions. Every one of them.

Most of them believe that the black holes which are spawned will evaporate harmlessly. Some disagree.

Then this... Look at the thing, visible over 20 degrees of earths latitude, a perfect spiral, from all view points... I need not get into the physics of how a helical spiral of an ascending missiles could not appear to be a perfect spiral from all vantage points simultaneously... or the fact that the blue jet emanating from the central mass could not possibly cut across the path of the perfect spiral as the out-gassing of the same rocket... unless of course, there were a second rocket, one spewing blue on its course across the path of the one spewing white... Or the fact that the metal rocket was not visible on radar systems, or that a launch was not detected by defense systems, or that the shockwave of what must have been the destruct sequence of this "errant rocket" was so powerful that it expanded to astronomical proportions... And yet didn't trigger the nuclear warning systems that are so sensitive they frequently are triggered by minor exploding meteors...

Also, no one seems too upset by Russia violating 2 treaties, one by failing to notify Norway and NATO powers of a test launch, another by using an obvious hi yield device to "auto destruct" their errant shot, refer to above about the shockwave and look at the videos of how huge that ball expands to...

Never mind all that, the people with trillions tied up in this project looking to reap the rewards of advanced weapons said it was a rocket, must have been a rocket :)

Cribbage
12-10-2009, 06:27 PM
You're right, its much more rational to think it was a black hole that could have swallowed the earth. Also, we need to mark this on the calendar that all scientists in the world agreed on something.

Come to think about it, I'm starting to think that someone breached the Ghostbusters containment field again. Has anyone seen the Keymaster or the Gatekeeper?

(I do however like the theories that I may cause worm holes)

Bloxy
12-10-2009, 08:02 PM
(I do however like the theories that I may cause worm holes)

Ladies beware!!!l It is now a proven fact that Leth causes warm holes.


OMG is it getting hot in here or did Leth just enter the room.

Cribbage
12-10-2009, 08:16 PM
0.0

^.^)b

Avyendha
12-10-2009, 11:33 PM
Ladies beware!!!l It is now a proven fact that Leth causes warm holes.


OMG is it getting hot in here or did Leth just enter the room.

And here i thought all this heat was caused by global warming...

Foxtracker
12-11-2009, 12:41 AM
I like argumentation, but i don't see the point now. This is my last post on this.

http://www.edpadgett.com/blog/uploaded_images/rocket-742730.jpg
Not the best comparison but,look somewhat familiar minus the spiral jet? the fuel combination/type changes the color. This is just me doing a random Google search for a few mins. I'm sure a better comparison could be made.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXA8WmFnp8s
watch carefully its Projecting, not pulling in.

1. Just because "its the first time in history" doesn't mean its not what it is. If its the first time in history then its the first time it looked like that. Your argument that is MUST be a black hole because you think i looks like it and no one can conclusively prove anything is an informal fallacy called appeal to ignorance. (more or less this is where someone says it must be something unless someone else proves otherwise, also ignoring any other valid explanations. The evidence falls to the person making his point, not to other people to prove its something else) I see no real explanation on your part for why you think it is a black hole other then you think i visually looks like what you image a black hole will look like.... It it up to you to prove your what you think is right. "I think X looks like Y, therefore X is Y" isn't enough.

Yes I made this silly parable off the top of my head...too tired to think it up more...
A Greek man looks up at sky and says,
"what do u think that bright sun is made of?"
Another Greek man answers, "why of course it is Apollo, can you think of anything else but a god that could burn with such brightness to light up the day?!"
"I don't know...that sounds kind of strange..."
"You give an explanation then! Prove i am wrong. if you cant then there is only one explanation, my own."
Greek man "Well i suppose i can't prove it is or isn't...well you must be right then."
and the Greek man never asks questions about the sun again because he knew they would be answers that aren't really answers.....

2. You'd be amazed at what can be see over 20 degrees of the worlds latitude. All u have to do is get the thing high enough and bright enough. Light warps in the changing density of the atmosphere. Rockets are meant to work perfectly or generally not at all....you don't want a broken rocket hitting your own city, so its unusual for a rocket to keep flying not as intended but not impossible. ICBM's are one of the few rockets that reach the outer atmosphere besides satellite launchers, its the perfect candidate for this situation. Combine that with the fact that so few ICBMs are actually tested and used it isn't at all surprising we see a "never before seen" phenomenon.

3. I already explained why that cant be the perfect spiral of an accretion disc. 1. the disc would be very very small....if the black hole ate 1 cubic mile of rock(bigger then most mountains) the disc would be waaay SMALLER the 1 cubic mile. To be the size of Delaware it must have absorbed even more mass then Delaware!! The gravitational strength just isn't there.(see explanation of black hole strength.) 2. If that was a black hole moving even moderately fast a disc wouldn't form because it couldn't keep up with the black hole. 3. discs wouldn't form because it its surrounded by matter....it would be a sphere of absorption...discs form when there is Time for the disc to be compressed into place. Some black holes don't even spin at all.

4. If the black hole was meandering along for hours it would generally grow at a steady rate and some evidence should be noticeable before it get miles into the sky and suddenly appears from thing air. Is your theory that the black hole was moving randomly? because even black holes are ruled by the laws of motion and gravity, its path has to make sense.(generally a curve or line depending on the forces acting on it)

5. There's a difference between missile detection systems that go off all the time and ones that are reliable.... the Russian one is laughable and old, the US one if unreliable at best, more of a political deceive then anything.

6. again where did the visible spiral come from? swirling air is still swirling air...clouds and dust make tornadoes visible, without them u cant see them...where did the contrast come from in a clear sky?

7."ascending missiles could not appear to be a perfect spiral from all vantage points simultaneously".... both a disc and a spiral of exhaust would share the same characteristics....from a distance they should both be somewhat 2D from a number of vantage points

There are probably over a hundred thousand people in the world with actual training in the sciences involving this materiel. Ill take some clout in your belief if even relatively small faction of those people raised their voices over this incident and proposed any real scientific theories on how any of it happened or even what makes them agree with you.

Bloxy
12-11-2009, 02:42 PM
The cause of the Phenom over Norway is quite simple. While Santa was making his annual visit to a very close personal friend's house earlier this week somebody, who shall remain nameless, gave him 60 year old rum and after Santa was quite intoxicated he was asked to leave so that somebody would not be late for a raid. As a very drunk Santa traveled through the skies he did a few dougnuts just for fun. The light show occured beacuase rudolph was not able to stop in time. Just as Santa cracked his whip causeing a power surge effect to Rudolphs nose as it was thrust up Vixen's ass. Yes folks this is what an exploding magical reindeer in outer space looks like. All Buffs posts are a sad attempt to escape responsibility for destroying Christmas.

avilone
12-11-2009, 09:21 PM
ummmmm .. rofl ....
bloxy science FTW

secondly .. i am no expert in this matter.. but i dont think an out of control rocket would create such a perfect spiral, whatever it was it is atm unexplained .. and anything about a rocket in my opinion is a cover up... you know government doesnt trust us with anything of importance .. and the only secret things we know are things they werent able to keep a secret

who knows what it was ... sooo .. R.I.P. Santa :signlol:

Cribbage
12-11-2009, 09:36 PM
How do you tell billions of people that the world is going to end and not create anarchy and chaos... you don't. I mean hell, look what a little hurricane did.

BTW ladies, any of you that wish to come create anarchy and chaos with me I'll be availible between 12/01/12 and 12/21/12.

Silynt
04-09-2010, 01:34 PM
Just for the hell of the post....seem to be forgetting 1 thing concerning black holes....they cannot be seen by the human eye. Nor can you see the Event horizon without graphic filters to see the IR and UV light spectrums.

Rislunt
04-10-2010, 11:09 PM
Ok so we can finish this debate,it was me i was testing my five point palm exploding heart technique on a leprechaun,and well it worked.


Jared

greychild
11-30-2012, 08:48 AM
We're all still here... unless you want to claim I am posting... what, 12 days before the world ends?

<--theoretical physicist-turned-teacher btw... the LHC was never in much danger of making black holes, though like all particle accelerators (well, many designs) it could make a jet of product particles

GC

Potawatomi
11-30-2012, 09:36 AM
We're all still here... unless you want to claim I am posting... what, 12 days before the world ends?

<--theoretical physicist-turned-teacher btw... the LHC was never in much danger of making black holes, though like all particle accelerators (well, many designs) it could make a jet of product particles

GC

With this new found knowledge of your background. What do you think of the new kinds of matter they are claiming to create?

Smahlin
11-30-2012, 11:49 AM
I LOL'd when I read the accusations in the original post. Thank you for bringing this one back up.

Smahlin
11-30-2012, 11:55 AM
I guess he really thought a mini black hole was formed and it traveled out to the atmosphere before becoming unstable and dissolving, but somehow it did that without feeding on the LHC matter. I think CERN would've been destroyed if a stable black hole was created, or at least the point of origin in the LHC.

If you like reading books about crazy people, super colliders, physics and some religious pieces, check out the book "Blasphemy" by Douglas Preston. I enjoyed it even more than I enjoyed reading the original post. lol

Cribbage
12-01-2012, 07:30 AM
Wow, nice necro rez. My offer still stands from 3 years ago.

BTW ladies, any of you that wish to come create anarchy and chaos with me I'll be availible between 12/01/12 and 12/21/12.

riverwake
12-08-2012, 04:39 PM
i am no genius by any means but that was nOT i repeat not exactly a blackhole...well yes and no...i THINK..it was a black hole BUT not a natural blackhole...from the way the it appeared and was apparently moving in a specific way with little energy mass directed any outside to the planet..(earth) i suspect that was a SHIP..of some sort..that traveled through our universe at well...very DAMN fast...thats my opinion...and i am no astrophysicist but i can SEE things ...in way that leads me to beleive that was not a natural made blackhole..it was a a hole made by some form of life...and i highly doubt it was made by anyone on this planet unless someone has figured out the method to harness the power of the sun and mas and energy of that level and has not told anyone and decided to have a test run and things got out of hand....again...i SEREIOUSLY doubt that was a MAN made blackhole...or a natural blackhole..call me crazy all you want...BUT...what i see is not what i have seen through telescopes and through all the scopes we have around the world that are peering out into space now and there are several black holes being observed right now at this time...anyway...good luck with the theory;s i'm curious to see if anything has come of this yet

RiverWake the MAd ranger in space

Cribbage
12-09-2012, 05:46 AM
It was explained away 3 years ago when it happened as a malfunction of a 5 point rocket system that was misfired by Russia or some such River. This is an ancient thread that was recently bumped.

Tasli
12-17-2012, 09:13 AM
This is an ancient thread that was recently bumped.

Heh, "Recently bumped" in a LHC topic ... class that! cheers